sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator 
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Sept 2, 2019 16:03:26 GMT 10
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Sept 3, 2019 10:32:14 GMT 10
In order to make the photos directly viewable in the forum, I have now converted all of them to .jpeg format. Although there is a loss in detail doing this, it may hopefully still show the differences due to the actual comparisons and also the device used to view and capture them with. I have only included one photo from ST as he had camera setting problems capturing the pictures He would have needed a longer exposure time. In my case, although there were very obvious differences when playing the videos, captured still frames, because they had identical checksums were all made to look the same by the S/W used to capture them.
Alex
The order of the photos is my own direct capture, followed by Chris's C and S videos, then David's C and S videos, then the best capture from ST. 
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Nov 7, 2019 12:12:40 GMT 10
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Post by ROWUK on Nov 27, 2019 18:14:04 GMT 10
In case people are wondering about the purpose of these 2 music video comparison files, they were designed to show that the currently accepted dogma that audio files with identical checksums must sound identical is incorrect. The 2 replies so far indicate that this is not correct, and that the same applies to video as well, which is what both David and Chris were reporting on. This has implications for the sound of ripped CDs where people believe that their ripped copy must sound identical, even to the Master copy that they were created from. These different looking videos were created using different power supplies to the storage media, in this case a USB memory stick.
More to come.
Alex If we change formats (CD to a rip on a PC) how could the checksum stay the same? If I play the same file with two different algorithms, I also get „different“ technical sound. Where I think the danger comes in is in the analysis „better/worse“. Is the „better“ a compensation of a system fault, a personal preference, a conditioned response? I think that things like this put more of a priority on developing a language and perception of what audio is and what we really mean. For me, the original performance and the intent of the musicians/composers is at the top of the heap in priority. After that a plausible reconstruction of the geometry of performers on stage (plausible space and depth) is next. After that the ability to capture the essence of each of the instruments being played - brilliance and directionality of a trumpet, the size of an acoustic guitar or Piano. After that comes the technical stuff. Learning to „read“ the posts and understand the posters intent and relate that to personal experience is the challenge. As far as this thread goes, I guess that I expect someone „else“ to figure out a „convienient“ way to reduce the amount of artifacts in ripping files. For me that means in iTunes... Video artifacts are a completely different monster requiring much more processing bandwidth. I would imagine that efficiency would give the PC more „breathing room“. |
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Nov 27, 2019 19:16:16 GMT 10
Hi Robin.
When ripping a CD to an SSD or HDD using EAC or dBPoweramp for example, provided that the CD is in good condition, the Binary Data on the rip should be identical to that of the original CD. This means that if you used correctly set up software such as EAC (Exact Audio Copy) that you could then burn the ripped data to a CD-R and end up with a perfect clone of the original CD as far as all Binary checks will show. However, that does not mean that they will necessarily sound EXACTLY the same. In fact, I can use the power supply area of the HDD/SSD/USB memory where the files are saved to manipulate the sound within reasonable limits, to make it sound a little dull, very close to the original, increased HF detail , warmer sounding, or even a warmer sounding low end combined with a little boost in HF detail.
This is without the actual Binary Data changing as evidenced by identical checksums or nulling of the waveforms of both. According to currently accepted theory , this should not ne possible. The same applies to even High Resolution Music Videos As a former Rock Grotto member you may recall that Martin Colloms verified my reports with several different versions of Dire Straits-Love over Gold by way of 6 separate , correctly performed DBT sessions. Even the Media the CDs are recorded on can make a difference, such as with the BluSpec comparison CDs where one is burned to a normal CD, and the other created using a Master made using a Blue Laser
I have attached a copy of a report from Martin Colloms about some comparison CDs that I sent him a while back, where the MAM Gold CD-Rs sounded much better than typical generic Supermarket CDs.
Martin made me a Moderator in his Hi Fi Critic forum as a result of my research in this area.
Kind Regards
Alex
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Post by ROWUK on Nov 28, 2019 4:20:21 GMT 10
I remember the RG posts and also experimenting myself back then. A difference was audible with various hard drives, USB media and various power supplies but the differences were not musically relevant enough for me to change habits. I did hear mostly changes in "transients" (crisper, detail, attack). I could not hear any difference in timbre, geometry or space. I am using a USB hub with independent, HQ, analog power supply however. That was an easy fix that had additional advantages. The only caveat is that if a USB device fails, there is 3A@5V that will destroy anything in its path.
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Nov 28, 2019 7:01:58 GMT 10
I remember the RG posts and also experimenting myself back then. A difference was audible with various hard drives, USB media and various power supplies but the differences were not musically relevant enough for me to change habits. I did hear mostly changes in "transients" (crisper, detail, attack). I could not hear any difference in timbre, geometry or space. I am using a USB hub with independent, HQ, analog power supply however. That was an easy fix that had additional advantages. The only caveat is that if a USB device fails, there is 3A@5V that will destroy anything in its path. Hi Robin The differences that I was able to demonstrate back then are quite minor compared with those that I am able to achieve now while still remaining Bit perfect. This is particularly so with recent Music Videos where you can both see and hear differences at the same time. The differences can be HUGE on the Video side where a decent quality large screen monitor or TV is used, with things like the Strobe lighting effects becoming almost blinding in some cases. It should be obvious that currently accepted Science teaching in many cases hasn't kept up with reality. In my case , it should not be possible for me to hear the things that I report , due to my Industrial type hearing damage from>40 years with Telstra , which also resulted in a 21mm diameter benign Acoustic Neuroma pressing on my right ear canal, the effects of which are BP dependent.
You may not also be aware that John Dyson and myself are in contact virtually every day, where we both routinely hear differences in the order of a small fraction of a Decibel !  That shouldn't be possible either, should it ?
Kind Regards. Alex
P.S. A USB hub isn't the best way to go for USB Audio. Ideally you should use something like the original Uptone USB Regen with a separate low noise PSU powering it, (I use a <4uV noise JLH PSU add-on) preferably from a regulated Battery supply such as a 12V Li Ion battery, as USB audio is highly sensitive to any capacitance to mains earth. If your DAC permits it, you should also disconnect the noisy +5V supply at the PC end of the USB cable. Even better , is likely to be the more recent Uptone IsoRegen, although in my case I don't need it as I only use USB for Audio storage to USB memory, where I am also able to plug it into either my Oppo 103 or my Samsung "LED" HDTV.
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Jan 19, 2020 8:07:28 GMT 10
I would be interested to know if any of you are able to both see and hear differences between the attached. Even when using the lacklustre Dropbox player I am easily able to see marked differences in brightness and contrast especially, as well as obvious audible differences, with one version sounding way too HF detailed (thin sounding) However you will need to view them in full screen, in low ambient lighting, and the Dropbox player won't always give you full screen viewing , in which case you will need to DL them . The differences are even MORE obvious via WiFi to my Samsung 40" TV via my Oppo 103 . Kind Regards Alex www.dropbox.com/s/5y8mqkoyrzwkxfd/Nicola.Roberts.Beat.Of.My.Drum..m2t?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/b5dh638b5kiywbb/Nicola.Roberts.Beat.Of.My.Drum. .1.m2t?dl=0 |
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Post by cj66 on Jan 27, 2020 6:08:43 GMT 10
Excuse my absence!
A quicky answer to this last track and only using laptop & cheap headphones and playing off Dropbox.
On this setup the track without the "1" is better, the 1 track is more shrill and the bass seems less tuneful. Obviously no comment on picture quality.
I have completely lost track of John's work, I've not listened or DL'd anything for ages.....been busy!
Is all quiet on the Dolby A front?
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Jan 27, 2020 9:50:47 GMT 10
Excuse my absence! A quicky answer to this last track and only using laptop & cheap headphones and playing off Dropbox. On this setup the track without the "1" is better, the 1 track is more shrill and the bass seems less tuneful. Obviously no comment on picture quality. I have completely lost track of John's work, I've not listened or DL'd anything for ages.....been busy! Is all quiet on the Dolby A front? Hi Chris The track with the 1 was saved to a USB memory stick plugged into the end of a generic 3M long USB cable The other track though is a little too detailed both audibly and visually. Your cheap headphones and laptop appear to be the limiting factor here though. John has recently done improved versions of Fleetwood Mac-Rumours, and a brand new Suzanne Vega-Solitude Standing. I will also pass on the DL links via PM for other interested members.
Kind Regards Alex
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