sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 17, 2019 20:46:53 GMT 10
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Post by Audiophile Neuroscience on Aug 17, 2019 21:47:10 GMT 10
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 17, 2019 21:51:40 GMT 10
I will explain via PM after listening, so as not to influence the results. This is another case of currently accepted theory not matching reality .
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Post by ROWUK on Aug 17, 2019 23:42:14 GMT 10
M2TS can be played on MacOS - but not with my native playback using BitPerfect. I am not sure that the comparison will be fair.
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Post by ROWUK on Aug 18, 2019 1:08:04 GMT 10
Well, I tried. There are so many things about this recording (that have nothing to do with the mastering or copy to another format) that distract me that I am sure that the intent of the comparison gets lost. Yes, I do hear a difference, but it matches my expectations. The differences are less than between the sound of my system on a dry or rainy day. What bothered me was essentially equal in both cases.
Pauls voice and left handed Hohner bass were captured VERY accurately...
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 18, 2019 9:51:43 GMT 10
Well, I tried. There are so many things about this recording (that have nothing to do with the mastering or copy to another format) that distract me that I am sure that the intent of the comparison gets lost. Yes, I do hear a difference, but it matches my expectations. The differences are less than between the sound of my system on a dry or rainy day. What bothered me was essentially equal in both cases. Pauls voice and left handed Hohner bass were captured VERY accurately... The original YouTube video was encoded with 128kbps .aac audio which is a LOSSY format. All that I did with this particular video was to re-encode it to Blu Ray standard with LPCM, using the same 128kbps .aac audio. It should not have been possible to recover any of the lost information that we can't hear when directly playing the You Tube video.
P.S. The attached is a quote from an Audiophile Style member who is one of the most sceptical Objective members of that forum.
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Post by Audiophile Neuroscience on Aug 19, 2019 21:20:28 GMT 10
The m2t file version. Better bass definition and impact and generally less muddiness and more separation in the mids and highs.
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 19, 2019 21:42:19 GMT 10
The m2t file version. Better bass definition and impact and generally less muddiness and more separation in the mids and highs. David Yes, you heard the same marked improvement as Dennis (Audiophile Style Forum) from the upsampled to LPCM version, which theoretically should have been impossible (?) using the original LOSSY 128kbps .aac audio. We also obtained similar improvements when doing this with several other music videos such as Carly Simon-You're So Vain"
This is why I have asked E.E John Dyson who is currently working on correcting many older CD releases using his new software, that were incorrectly decoded from the original Dolby A for archival purpose, his thoughts on this subject , as it may be possible to design a markedly improved YouTube S/W player which upconverts the original low bit rate .aac to LPCM " on the fly" or with a small delay at start up. This would markedly improve the SQ available from YouTube videos (even the Ads at the beginning ) without increasing their bandwidth, and possibly even work to improve the audio from low bit rate DAB transmissions (?)
Regards Alex
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Post by Audiophile Neuroscience on Aug 19, 2019 22:09:12 GMT 10
The m2t file version. Better bass definition and impact and generally less muddiness and more separation in the mids and highs. David Yes, you heard the same marked improvement as Dennis (Audiophile Style Forum) from the upsampled to LPCM version, which theoretically should have been impossible (?) using the original LOSSY 128kbps .aac audio. We also obtained similar improvements when doing this with several other music videos such as Carly Simon-You're So Vain"
This is why I have asked E.E John Dyson who is currently working on correcting many older CD releases using his new software, that were incorrectly decoded from the original Dolby A for archival purpose, his thoughts on this subject , as it may be possible to design a markedly improved YouTube S/W player which upconverts the original low bit rate .aac to LPCM " on the fly" or with a small delay at start up. This would markedly improve the SQ available from YouTube videos (even the Ads at the beginning ) without increasing their bandwidth, and possibly even work to improve the audio from low bit rate DAB transmissions (?)
Regards Alex I can't say I understand it Alex but then again there are many things I don't understand. I recall John Dyson from AS and he struck me as being quite traditional and skeptical, so if he is backing whatever it is, that is encouraging. Dennis is also not prone to subjective leanings but he is open minded and despite his clashes with you in the past he very much respects you.He would never say he heard something if he did not. It still needs to pass the usual scientific scrutiny but certainly encouraging thus far. You mentioned a possible application in digital audio broadcasting. An audio engineer from Oxford England just joined our group who, among other things, is involved in setting up internet radio stations. maybe he will drop by. freddytDavid
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 21, 2019 11:51:19 GMT 10
Here are another couple of comparisons, but this time with low bit rate .aac files of only 5,503KB each. You are unlikely to hear the differences with a typical Laptop (?) , but a member of another forum was even able to hear the differences using his phone and earbuds last night . They can either be played directly from the mediocre DropBox player, or downloaded and played from a good Media Player such as JRiver 25 for better results . You should be able to notice the differences from 31 seconds in, or even right from the beginning if your gear is good enough. Again, this suggests that there may be a little more to low bit rate .aac encoding than previously thought. Alex www.dropbox.com/s/9igvrt9zc7qtkp5/Tyros%203%20-%20The%20Power%20Of%20Love%20%28Instrumental%29%20s.aac?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/yr18fevzczk5pap/Tyros%203%20-%20The%20Power%20Of%20Love%20%28Instrumental%29%20O.aac?dl=0 P.S. J.K. and several other members will not need any convincing in this highly contentious area. John is way past this level as can be seen from his highly respected product range.
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 30, 2019 17:31:43 GMT 10
FEEDBACK NEEDED.
I need Feedback before passing these links on to closed minded E.Es in another forum. Are you able to both SEE and HEAR the differences between these 2 Music Videos ? If your Internet speed is fast enough , you should be able to play them directly using the Dropbox player, however they are best downloaded and saved to your computer and viewed in Full Screen . If the Dropbox player stutters at the beginning, you will need to download them to see them at their best.
The differences may however not be obvious when using a typical Laptop. They are best viewed using an external monitor in reduced ambient lighting, with the audio played through your home system.
Alex
www.dropbox.com/s/u7upt92kzrcp7va/Katy%20Perry%20-Teenage%20Dream%202010.09.25%20c.m2t?dl=0 www.dropbox.com/s/jgrw0i89anrk11p/Katy%20Perry%20-Teenage%20Dream%202010.09.25%20s.m2t?dl=0
P.S. If your gear is good enough, you may even be able to see the differences BEFORE you hit the PLAY button.
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Post by Audiophile Neuroscience on Aug 30, 2019 18:13:44 GMT 10
I PMd a clear difference
David ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing a song." - - Louis Armstrong
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Post by cj66 on Aug 30, 2019 22:55:03 GMT 10
x2
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Aug 31, 2019 19:27:46 GMT 10
In case people are wondering about the purpose of these 2 music video comparison files, they were designed to show that the currently accepted dogma that audio files with identical checksums must sound identical is incorrect. The 2 replies so far indicate that this is not correct, and that the same applies to video as well, which is what both David and Chris were reporting on. This has implications for the sound of ripped CDs where people believe that their ripped copy must sound identical, even to the Master copy that they were created from. These different looking videos were created using different power supplies to the storage media, in this case a USB memory stick.
More to come.
Alex
In the meantime , here is another pair of comparison music videos having identical checksums.
Are you able to see and hear a difference ? If your PC/Laptop and Monitor are good enough, you should even be able to see the differences before you start play.
www.dropbox.com/s/tkgpbpe5xkfs01d/Halsey%20-%20Bad%20At%20Love%20s.m2t?dl=0 www.dropbox.com/s/vekwg4z2c2u2nly/Halsey%20-%20Bad%20At%20Love.1.m2t?dl=0
md5 Checksums
4ef41f43fba21ba939ab807a6380a53a *Halsey - Bad At Love.1.m2t 4ef41f43fba21ba939ab807a6380a53a *Halsey - Bad At Love s.m2t ; 2 files hashed.
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sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021)
Global Moderator
Posts: 226
About Me: Retired ex Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer with 43 years at Telstra (Australia)
I am also a Moderator in Hi Fi Critic Forum
Electronics hobbyist for >65 years with DIY projects including Loudspeakers, Stereo FM tuner, S/W Regen Receiver, Superhet AM ,
Synchrodyne PLL AM tuner (Phase Lock Loop),Stereo Tape Deck, Amplifiers including I.C. types, Class A, Class AB 100W/Ch. (ETI5000) 240W/Ch. Mosfet (AEM6000) ,several DACs , numerous PSUs including VERY low noise (<4uV) types etc.for myself and friends
Audio Industry Affiliation: NIL
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Post by sandyk (RIP Alex, 1939 - 2021) on Sept 1, 2019 20:17:52 GMT 10
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