Post by Audiophile Neuroscience on Oct 27, 2019 13:07:44 GMT 10
No one needs to tell us why we should (already know why!), or even how we should (already know how!), although maybe some tips pop out... a glass of wine, dim lighting, adding a SuperMegaXYZ widget to our system...
Well, if the widget costs more than a couple bucks, I want to know why you recommend it. And whether it's the SuperMegaXYZ or just an AcmeAmp 1, I may want to listen myself.
So a listening "test", done by you and/or me.
Whether it's a "test" or an "experiment" or just a "comparison", it's all done to provide further useful information to someone. In many cases, it is done just for oneself, ...and perhaps a couple friends, ...and maybe some strangers who trust you, or maybe a group that doesn't trust you, e.g. an editor and 2-3 reviewers, or some forum members.
Why do a listening test? The only reason I can think of to do a listening test is to convince someone of the result, or at least stir their interest. Can you think of other reasons?
And the first step to figuring out the how, is to first answer the why: whom will you want to convince? That guides you to the best way to execute the test. If you will only want to convince yourself, you already know what you need to do... unless you want to do the test to a higher standard than you already know. If you want to convince others, you need to understand what their standards are. If you don't find that, you may be disappointed that all your effort was unsuccessful. And if you don't want to waste your effort, you should find the conditions needed to convince before you start.
There are no rules. There are no laws. If you find "rules" somewhere and you violate them, there are no ABX police who will lock you in the DBT prison. But sometimes there are standards or standard methods, but it depends very much on what exact question you intend to answer. You must also take into account a common feature of human nature: if your results contradict someone's beliefs or "knowledge", they will pick apart your methods. Whether they are objectivists, subjectivists, audiophiles, scientists or engineers, whether it is you or I, you can expect resistance to getting someone to admit they were wrong.
Some listening tests are very easy to perform and some require quite a bit of effort. I'd love to discuss this further, if there's any interest.
As for DBTs, they are often a waste of time, as the majority of E.E.s appear to reject the results when the results don't go the way that they expected.
This is based on a series of 6 separate DBT sessions with 8 repeats in each, performed by E.E Martin Colloms and a friend , with comparison.wav files that I suppled . The results were a total of 48 out of 48 positive results and the DBTs were correctly performed, yet almost all the qualified E.Es in a large USA based forum refuse to accept the validity of the results.
My reports have also been confirmed by 2 NSW based E.Es in the home of one of them. Before they became E.Es quite a while ago, they both worked behind the counter at a Sydney Jaycar store where I first met them back in the David Tillbrook days,(ETI5000, and AEM6000 amplifiers) where he visited the store on one occasion and I got to meet him.
You have mentioned these sessions many times on several forums. I was interested, so I PM-ed you on AS/CA. You were kind enough to send me further info. But I remained unconvinced. I didn't follow up because I knew you were quite passionate, and I didn't want to start a battle.
It is important to realize that I'm not convinced you were wrong or that your methods were wrong or that the results lacked meaning. I'm simply unconvinced one way or the other for one simple reason: I need details about the exact methods used... not each time you mention the sessions, but somewhere to find. The people involved, and their degrees and/or employment history, carries very little power to convince me. I've met M.D.'s, Ph.D.'s and engineers who were frankly not so bright, and I used to know a handyman, a former felon, who was brilliant. I've been lucky enough to work with several brilliant people.
You say "the DBTs were correctly performed", but to be honest, that is up to the people you want to convince to judge for themselves, whether they are E.E.'s, Ph.D.'s or handymen. I couldn't find the details I needed. ...and i don't want to fight about it.
Cheers, SAM
"All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing a song." -
- Louis Armstrong